Democracy for Towns!

[DeletedUser]

Each town is an independent state that has absolute and unchallengeable power over itself. Towns as they are govern themselves like absolute monarchies, with the mayors at the top, ordering everyone what to do and what to contribute. I present the following documents that enforce democracies in towns and protect natural rights of citizens:

Responses to FAQ's:
Towns only have to accept these documents if they want to (not going to force anyone, because... HOW?)
Please do understand that these documents are merely a template for towns that do want the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Yes, they can be changed by you. There is no copyright and it's not carved out in the White House


The Bill of Rights
Any player in The West is considered a natural person, and when dealing with towns is protected by the First Right, the right to be correctly and fully informed about all policies the town implements.

The First Right cannot be altered by any town. It is provided, so to say, 'AS IS'. If you invite people into your town, they have to know the full truth about what your town does, and that is defined by morale and ethics.

Anyone accepted into a town automatically becomes a citizen of the town with certain rights that the government of the town cannot take away.
Second Right is the right to citizenship security. Under the Bill, no citizen can be kicked out of the town by higher officials, unless at least 2/3 of all citizens vote him/her out.
Third Right is the right to property. No citizen can be forced by the government to submit or discard of or sell any items they own (including money).

Once again, these are the rights that cannot be taken away once they are given.

The Constitution
Preambule:
Each citizen in a town by default has a right to decide on the town's issues through voting.
In order to let their town grow and expand, the citizens can voluntarily give up their right to property to contribute to the treasury so that new buildings could be built. Citizens do not have to give up their money to the treasury, as stated in the Bill of Rights. If they do, however, they gain more weighted votes (explained below).

I. Popular Vote:
In the popular vote system each citizen in the town, regardless of level, building hours, and money contribution has exactly one popular vote. The proposals that have the most popular votes become the "Popular proposals".
II. Weighted Vote:
Each citizen, nevertheless, contributed differently to the town development. In the weighted vote system, each person has (money contributed)+20X(building hours) weighted votes. The proposals that have the most weighted votes become the "Weighted proposals"
III. Town Mayors
Town Mayors or Town Counselors cannot take action upon any issue that will reflect the life in the town without letting the citizens vote on the issue first.
If there are any disputes between the weighted proposals and the popular proposals, the town mayors have the power to pick the proposal to follow from the disputed ones.

Town Forum
All voting has to be done in a separate town forum called "Voting". Current issues are labeled "Important" until they hit their deadline. No topic in the voting forum should ever be deleted.

 

[DeletedUser]

Town mayors, if you wonder how can you rotate people if you stated that you can't kick them out under The Bill of Rights, talk it out with them and make them leave regularly by themselves...

 

[DeletedUser]

Very interesting a much better esoteric Bill of Rights !

 

[DeletedUser]

I would venture to say in my expierence the guilds/tribes/towns with the "rule with an iron fist" usually translate to more organization and then higher rankings because of it, most of these groups tend to have ring of friends to per say that benifit more than the general population of the organization.
While I agree with the bill of rights you have outlined, say a group of people who are better off than others in the money department could essentially sway votes against the intended direction of the town from the founders intentions.

I am a town founder and it is a dictatorship and it will stay that way to protect the values that make my town special, for one there is no censorship you could tell me to go F#@K myself on my forums and as long as its done with some maturity and tact I can live with that. I would prefer it if it made me laugh.
If you were to not contribute anything at all and we needed room I would drop you in a heartbeat and get what we need and the only person who would have a problem with that is a freeloader. We are not big enough to have a council imo but when we are they will have the same vision as myself and thats you dont need someone to tell you what to do but if you cant pull your weight you need to go somewhere that you can/will.

No sig yet but when I get one you will fear the speedo!

 

[DeletedUser]

When this first caught my attention, my thought was, 'omg totalitarin policing bull crap I'm gonna have to start a war over'

... Then I read it

You have some good stuff there. Is your intention to promote this as something all should seek to adhere to? If so what would be the consequences if they didn't, esp. if they breached a lot of it heavily? Would the leadership of such towns then be hit with pressure groups, i.e. 'diplomacy', followed by threats, followed by ganking of their Mayor and/or Councillors, followed by war perhaps involving opposing town coalitions?

I won't give my opinion on such actions, will let you answer that first

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't need all that fancy wording to run my town correctly.

Everyone is treated equally and gets a say so in all important decisions made. I may make the final decision on builds, but everyone is free to do what they want (within guidelines of course).

I may be a Monarch, but I am not Absolute.

I guess that's why I still have vacancies, huh?

 

[DeletedUser]

I guess that's why I still have vacancies, huh?

Probably, nice guys finish last and all that.

I just smile at the thought of any type of wordly enforced 'ethical' coalition. Gives all of us that love our freedom a nice big target to topple

I'd like Mad Hank to respond to my previous Q. when he gets back around though, maybe it was just a suggested template for running a town, I hope so, else I may go apply some warpaint

 

[DeletedUser]

I do believe the Bill of Rights portion of this should be implemented in some way across The West but the The Constitution and use of it should be voted on just as the Second right let's citizens vote on booting out a town member.

 

[DeletedUser]

....and just like the States are able to create their own Constitution, everyone will still deviate from it.

If anyone has a town full of members that can and will follow that Constitution AND vote in a timely manner, then you have one heckuva town. Otherwise, us smaller towns that don't get enough activity out of their members will be stuck for days before a decision is reached.

The idea is nice, but I doubt it could be implemented in a way that will satisfy nor comply with every town.

 

[DeletedUser]

WoW, too many long comments, I am too tired to read. Anyway, how about put this in the Ideas and Brainfarts Thread?

 

[DeletedUser]

If you don't like the way people run their town then make your own town IMO.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you don't like the way people run their town then make your own town IMO.

Who are you talking to, Leaf?

 

[DeletedUser]

WoW, too many long comments, I am too tired to read. Anyway, how about put this in the Ideas and Brainfarts Thread?

Then why post? Ever hear of Trolling? Hijacking threads? Being a tool?

 

[DeletedUser]

Interesting idea, however sometimes a leader has to make a decision to boot someone quickly and does not have the luxury of calling a vote...

For example I gave the axe to this level 5 who had joined our town, I went out to eat came back and he had put in 2 hours of labor on a building we weren't working on.... I sent him a letter, explaining that the builders would take care of building and that he needed to level up more if he wanted to help build... He responded by telling me I didn't know what I was doing, and that he was going to do what he wanted. Now I could have let the guy run thru my entire treasury, putting up 5 points a per 240$, while I wait 24 hours for a vote to pass... But I rather liked kicking him outta town instead.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well let me take this one thing at a time. Observations and witty commentary in colored text to follow.

Each town is an independent state that has absolute and unchallengeable power over itself. Towns as they are govern themselves like absolute monarchies, with the mayors at the top, ordering everyone what to do and what to contribute. I present the following documents that enforce democracies in towns and protect natural rights of citizens. These documents (modified to suit the town needs, if needed) should be voluntarily accepted and followed by all towns in The West:

If each town is independent with unchallengeable power over itself then why are you saying '...should be voluntarily accepted and followed by all towns in The West'. That seems to usurp the power of the Mayor of each town and place it in your hands.


The Bill of Rights
Any player in The West is considered a natural person, and when dealing with towns is protected by the First Right, the right to be correctly and fully informed about all policies the town implements.

Anyone accepted into a town automatically becomes a citizen of the town with certain rights that the government of the town cannot take away.
Second Right is the right to citizenship security. Under the Bill, no citizen can be kicked out of the town by higher officials, unless at least 2/3 of all citizens vote him/her out.
Third Right is the right to property. No citizen can be forced by the government to submit or discard of or sell any items they own (including money).

Actually some good points here. Let's break it down though:
First Right - all citizens should be informed of all policies in full, completely agree with you on this one.
Second Right - Not a bad idea. No one should be kicked out based on personal vendetta of a town official without the citizens opinions
Third Right - Ummm, no one can force you to do anything in this game. They can ask but can't force.

Once again, these are the rights that cannot be taken away once they are given.

All rights can be taken away once they are given just like in real life. And what rights are you really talking about here? The right to be informed and the right not to be kicked out without due cause. That is just common sense.

The Constitution
Preambule:
Each citizen in a town by default has a right to decide on the town's issues through voting.
In order to let their town grow and expand, the citizens can voluntarily give up their right to property to contribute to the treasury so that new buildings could be built. Citizens do not have to give up their money to the treasury, as stated in the Bill of Rights. If they do, however, they gain more weighted votes (explained below).

The towns founder decides how the government in their town is run. If you don't like the way your town is run then you just simply leave and join a new town.

I. Popular Vote:
In the popular vote system each citizen in the town, regardless of level, building hours, and money contribution has exactly one popular vote. The proposals that have the most popular votes become the "Popular proposals".
II. Weighted Vote:
Each citizen, nevertheless, contributed differently to the town development. In the weighted vote system, each person has (money contributed)+50X(building hours) weighted votes. The proposals that have the most weighted votes become the "Weighted proposals"

Weighted votes? Too easy to manipulate that system. That would be BUYING votes, which is definitely NOT a tactic smiled upon in democracies.

III. Town Mayors
Town Mayors or Town Counselors cannot take action upon any issue that will reflect the life in the town without letting the citizens vote on the issue first.
If there are any disputes between the weighted proposals and the popular proposals, the town mayors have the power to pick the proposal to follow from the disputed ones.
Sometimes there may be events happening that require quick action on the part of the town counselors. In these cases, when delay could be harmful to a town, then the town counselors should have every right to adopt a temporary rule until further discussion and ideas can be voted on.

Town Forum
All voting has to be done in a separate town forum called "Voting". Current issues are labeled "Important" until they hit their deadline. No topic in the voting forum should ever be deleted.
Again, it should be up to the founder how they want their town government to run. Even if you do the voting thing, in a town with 5 citizens a tie can take place very easily of 2-2. So someone has to be the tiebreaker. That right should always be reserved to the town founder. Someone has to lead, they just don't have to put a noose around every citizens neck to do so.

I understand you have the best intentions, but to again quote your first paragraph, every town is an independent state with unchallengeable power over itself. If you don't like how your town is being run then become the founder of your own town or join a different town, or don't belong to a town at all.

If every citizen doesn't contribute money and/or time to the town then the town will not flourish. The town will not be able to keep up with its citizens evolution in the game and will become less valuable to its citizens. Mayors don't expect freeloaders in their town and citizens don't expect to live and contribute to a town run by Ghengis Khan. Its really simple and common sense. Plus, its just a game.

 

[DeletedUser]

When this first caught my attention, my thought was, 'omg totalitarin policing bull crap I'm gonna have to start a war over'

... Then I read it

You have some good stuff there. Is your intention to promote this as something all should seek to adhere to? If so what would be the consequences if they didn't, esp. if they breached a lot of it heavily? Would the leadership of such towns then be hit with pressure groups, i.e. 'diplomacy', followed by threats, followed by ganking of their Mayor and/or Councillors, followed by war perhaps involving opposing town coalitions?

I won't give my opinion on such actions, will let you answer that first

I am not answering for Mad Hank aka Old Man James who is Co Town Founder of the Town of Lincoln with me:

I am merely stating this:

This is a a Game. The post is drafted for The Town of Lincoln, it was not intended to be Written in Stone and Used by All Towns in the West. It was to be read and comprehended "in the Spirit of the Game " .. a role playing game where we are founding towns and building up the West !

To inject a sense of realism Mad Hank aka Old Man James >> In the game << drafted The Constitution and the Bill of Rights for his Town Lincoln. Realising other players might like to also adopt something similar for their towns .. he said "These documents (modified to suit the town needs, if needed) should be voluntarily accepted and followed by all towns in The West"

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand you have the best intentions, but to again quote your first paragraph, every town is an independent state with unchallengeable power over itself. If you don't like how your town is being run then become the founder of your own town or join a different town, or don't belong to a town at all.

If every citizen doesn't contribute money and/or time to the town then the town will not flourish. The town will not be able to keep up with its citizens evolution in the game and will become less valuable to its citizens. Mayors don't expect freeloaders in their town and citizens don't expect to live and contribute to a town run by Ghengis Khan. Its really simple and common sense. Plus, its just a game.

Please read my answer to Lamorra above

 

[DeletedUser]

Poor choice of words on his part then. He should have said 'could be' not 'should be'.

I've played loads of games where someone comes into the forums and wants server wide rules and policies to be followed or even enforced. Yeah, throw your ideas out there. If you do then expect to get feedback good and bad for it. Like I said, I am sure his intentions were for the benefit of everyone but I think I made some valid points. Especially about weighted votes and the ability to just leave a town that isn't working for you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Poor choice of words on his part then. He should have said 'could be' not 'should be'.

There lay the confusion. I did call him out to confirm his true meaning. You can surely understand peoples concern at a player posting up a 'suggested worldwide constitution' of sorts.

Not saying it wasn't done with the best of intentions, but... well... that kinda stuff is how wars start if the OP isn't careful

 

[DeletedUser]

Poor choice of words on his part then. He should have said 'could be' not 'should be'.

I've played loads of games where someone comes into the forums and wants server wide rules and policies to be followed or even enforced. Yeah, throw your ideas out there. If you do then expect to get feedback good and bad for it. Like I said, I am sure his intentions were for the benefit of everyone but I think I made some valid points. Especially about weighted votes and the ability to just leave a town that isn't working for you.

This is a role playing game so of course we all know you can just leave a town, or not even join a town where this is in effect, why so much hostility ?

The weighted votes can (if you read the salient part) be over ruled by the Mayors, which is exactly how the game operates anyway.

Lastly, Mad Hank is an extremely literate person, English is not his first language, and neither is it mine, we are both human and so we are bound to make some tiny errors.

Poor choice of words on his part then. He should have said 'could be' not 'should be'.

<< as indeed you also could have said "could rather than should">>