Is attacking someone and stealing their property evil?

[DeletedUser]

• Is attacking someone and stealing their property evil?
• Is witnessing an attack and doing nothing to stop it cowardly?
• Is defending a weak victim from a strong robber good?
• Is revenge the same thing as justice?
• Do you oppose adding “good-guy” options to the combat logic?
• Should Innogames continue to market The West as a game where you can “choose which way you want to go”?

These six polls are an attempt to bring clarity to the debate raging on several older threads. I hope we can clarify the root issues, and together find some specific and play-enhancing recommendations for Innogames.

Update coming momentarily…

 

[DeletedUser]

the answer is: it's just a game, and nobody forces you to play it.

Regibert

 

[DeletedUser]

that's true it's only a game

when you feel forced to take such decision and you think this game is going to change your life in a bad way you can always stop

 

[DeletedUser]

so true. so true

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes in rl, no on a game.
I support the notion of bounties on the game.
Would that accommodate the aspirations of those who wish to role play as a 'good' character?
It has to be said that those bounties would, of course, be collected by the use of violence.
So is it the use of violence in any form that you object to OR the fact that you don't have an option to resist violence with violence?

 

[DeletedUser1105]

Is attacking someone and stealing their property evil?

In real life, yes. On a game, I think evil would be harsh. It's certainly a bad action.

Is witnessing an attack and doing nothing to stop it cowardly?

Again, in RL yes, but on a game it does not rub the same way.

Is defending a weak victim from a strong robber good?

Always yes.

Is revenge the same thing as justice?

Nope, but it sure is sweet....

Do you oppose adding “good-guy” options to the combat logic?

Not at all, I think it would enhance the game. Bounty hunters, jails etc.

Should Innogames continue to market The West as a game where you can “choose which way you want to go”?

Yes. You DO choose. Like in life, you choose where you want to go, but if you get mugged when you get there, it doesn't mean you didn't have the choice to go that way.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'd have to answer most of the questions with a definite maybe.

1. If someone kills you and steals from your body, are they stealing from you or your beneficiaries? Sorry, irrelevant in the game. If someone attacks you and steals your money, and you later attack them and steal it back, steal whatever they bought with it, or steal other money from them, is it still stealing? In most, if not all, wars, both sides believe they are right. Country X needs room to expand and water for it's people and livestock, so it's a matter of survival to move on to lands belonging to country Y. Country Y needs to keep it's land and water, so it's a matter of survival to keep X from taking it. If they go to war, who is "evil" and who is "good"?

2. If you witness an attack, but would end up dead if you intervened, is it cowardice or survival to stay out of it?

3. If the weak person had stolen first, would it be good to defend the person just because he/she is weak? Unless you know the history behind the attack, you really can't be sure if it's good or not, can you?

4. They can be similar, or completely different. Revenge is retaliating in the same way that you were injured. If it was wrong for someone to attack you, wouldn't it be just as wrong for you to attack back for revenge? Under most governments, revenge is illegal but justice is legal (if done by the correct people).

5. I don't really see how there can be good guy or bad guy options since nobody but you know your reasons for doing things. I believe any options should be available to all, or the majority, of players. That means that if a duelist is attacked in revenge for attacking someone else, a group of duelists should be able to form a posse to go after the other person (if posses for "good guys" were implemented.) I don't really see it solving anything.

6. Yes, as long as it's clear that you have to choose one of the directions they've included.

 

[DeletedUser]

In real life, yes. On a game, I think evil would be harsh. It's certainly a bad action.


Again, in RL yes, but on a game it does not rub the same way.


Always yes.


Nope, but it sure is sweet....


Not at all, I think it would enhance the game. Bounty hunters, jails etc.


Yes. You DO choose. Like in life, you choose where you want to go, but if you get mugged when you get there, it doesn't mean you didn't have the choice to go that way.

He stole my post. :bandit:

 

[DeletedUser]

it is not evil at all!

 

[DeletedUser]

i think the problem is you are putting this in an emotional light, and its a strategic game. yes it can be an rpg, and yes you can choose not to do the job "robbing the stagecoach" because your character "doesnt believe its right" but bottom line, it is a strategy game with goals to meet and jobs to do in it. it has certain different play styles that you could use to meet your goals, but thats it. its not a question of morality, its a question of why try to make a silly little webgame so pivotal in your life as to cause you moral dilemma while playing it?

 

[DeletedUser]

I hope you weren't directing that at me - I have no morals!

 

[DeletedUser]

noitsan answer to thomas' post.

 

[DeletedUser2708]

i think the problem is you are putting this in an emotional light, and its a strategic game. yes it can be an rpg, and yes you can choose not to do the job "robbing the stagecoach" because your character "doesnt believe its right" but bottom line, it is a strategy game with goals to meet and jobs to do in it. it has certain different play styles that you could use to meet your goals, but thats it. its not a question of morality, its a question of why try to make a silly little webgame so pivotal in your life as to cause you moral dilemma while playing it?

So, if the object of the game were to rape women and stab babies in the head...? :bandit:

 

[DeletedUser]

then i would call it barneysplat or gta. and i would play it if it were an enjoyable game.

 

[DeletedUser5046]

they always forgot the real world...(a game is a game-only two things are possible--losing or winning)

 

[DeletedUser]

exCTLY.....

 

[DeletedUser]

This is where the great disconnect between "strategy" gamers and "Role" players comes in .
To a Role Player who is comfortable with an open ended game , there is no win or lose . The entire exercise is about how You character behaves . You're constantly grading the morality of Your characters actions against the template for Him (or her) You have in mind .
There are no inconsequential actions , everything is important to how the "Character" grows or devolves .
I am a self described "Gamer" , I've played RPG's for longer than most here have been alive . I do however enjoy RTS games as well .
I see both sides of this issue . I don't see why the strategy gamers are so strongly opposed to allowing some Role playing aspects of the game heightened . Though I will admit , Thomas's arguments are geared towards invoking an emotional response .

 

[DeletedUser]

Okay, so.........

I believe that one way to stimulate debate and liven a discussion is to phrase a question or make an argument that may have an emotional element to it. Does that not help to keep a discussion interesting, and encourage envolvement? Honestly, if a discussion were carried on in monotones with black and white slides as visual aides, anybody involved would soon be either leaving or sound asleep. If Thomas is ardent in his views, so what? The same could be said of most folks here, myself included. One thing I will say, Thomas listens to the obverse viewpoint. He may not agree, and thats okay. Democracy is, after all an agreement to disagree in some cases.

 

[DeletedUser]

I certainly think it's possible for a game to be in bad taste or be morally corrupting. But let's get real, this is very low down the list of such games.

On the other hand I have to admit that the other day I DID see my neighbour with $9 in his back-pocket and couldn't resist the urge to throw my broken clay jug at him and steal $3. Sadly, as i was on the way to the bank a monkey threw a granite rock at me and stole $1 off me.

 

[DeletedUser1105]

Yeah, and it's getting a bit of a pain having to travel so much.

I used to work 9-5 in an office, but now I keep changing jobs every two hours. And I'm sure the government will be interested to know that I get paid cash in hand.