Game balance - shooting

[DeletedUser]

Giving the most plentiful experiences, ranked in highest LPed arbeit, even used to duels, shooting skill's a almost cheating skill
One knows nothing about game knowhow can be a top ranker as long as he raise setting trap until hunts grizzly bear, then does shooting
Anyone else can't keep up trapper&shooter and it's unfair in others' view
Gunmans so far as can have stronger weapon than butchers
Because of this reason, butchers are hard to see in top-rankers and in my view v1.14 game patch doesn't reflect this circumstances.

 

[DeletedUser1105]

What? Are yuou saying it's unfair for people to be able to use guns? Or to spend skills in shooting and setting traps?

Strange name you've chosen by the way.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hi sdjx22,
I'd like to say both of them, they're related

 

[DeletedUser]

There are some better XP jobs for "Red" skills in v1.14 ... and Red skill jobs are better money jobs, so its a trade off.

Also Melee'rs have a clear advantage in duels cause people raise Reflex higher then Toughness ... so again another trade off.

I'd imagine once people get past L 55 or so that money is not an issue so all the high difficulty jobs with high money seem worthless to me ...

 

[DeletedUser]

His complaint seems to be that DEX improves aim, shooting, and trapping. And apparrantly, even after the .14 patch, a lot of good jobs require high shooting and trapping. So he feels the people who chose melee weapons, and improve vigor, are at a disadvantage. Also, he says the damage from melee weapons doesn't compare with a shooting weapon of same level.
I know there are a bunch of mid-range jobs that require Construction or Vigor, but I confess I haven't studied the jobs the way some people do, so I don't know if his complaint is valid.

As for the other- Hmm, if you switched "toughness" and "dodge" [I know, dodge does not seem to be a "strength" type skill, and toughness doesn't relate to "mobility"], then the shooters would be improving aim and attack with 1 attibute, the melee people would be improving dodge and attack with 1 attribute, and anyone could improve both toughness/reflex with 1 attibute. Of course, then we would get the complaint that BUILDERS were much too tough....

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, whistlingleaf- neither here nor there, but as for your statement that "people raise reflex higher than toughness" giving melee people an advantage, could I direct you to a post about how reflex/toughness DOESN'T reduce damage enough, made by someone named---- whistlingleaf !!

 

[DeletedUser3741]

Melee is at a disadvantage as well when facing builders who with thier high construction and strength, get naturally high toughness as well

the only build that raises your reflex naturally is the undervalued 'hiding' build which rivals the setting traps (but slightly worse)

with setting traps currently sitting as the most over powered skill, in dexterity it pushes people to have free rides into naturally high ranged damage and accuracy, which after about 25ish levels (which are easily reached) into setting traps they can raise their shooting and become fairly effective makeshift duelist

While vigor is used in a fair amount of money jobs, with pretty good payouts for the difficult, half of its jobs are low crap jobs and none of them are used and none of its jobs are ever xp jobs, shooting on the other hand runs the gamut in the difficulty, from crap jobs to best jobs, it has money, xp and items, and most of its jobs also needs setting traps as well

 

[DeletedUser]

Whistlingleaf
I'd imagine once people get past L 55 or so that money is not an issue so all the high difficulty jobs with high money seem worthless to me
Talamare
with setting traps currently sitting as the most over powered skill, in dexterity it pushes people to have free rides into naturally high ranged damage and accuracy, which after about 25ish levels (which are easily reached) into setting traps they can raise their shooting and become fairly effective makeshift duelist
While vigor is used in a fair amount of money jobs, with pretty good payouts for the difficult, half of its jobs are low crap jobs and none of them are used and none of its jobs are ever xp jobs, shooting on the other hand runs the gamut in the difficulty, from crap jobs to best jobs, it has money, xp and items, and most of its jobs also needs setting traps as well

It's the point what I'd like to talk
Thank you

Search the top rankers each of attibutes and their level .
who's the winner? It's not casual

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh, whistlingleaf- neither here nor there, but as for your statement that "people raise reflex higher than toughness" giving melee people an advantage, could I direct you to a post about how reflex/toughness DOESN'T reduce damage enough, made by someone named---- whistlingleaf !!

How is what people raise more Reflex or Toughness relevant to the fact that overall damage should be reduced OR points in toughness/reflex should reduce damage more ?

 

[DeletedUser]

Also, he says the damage from melee weapons doesn't compare with a shooting weapon of same level.
I know there are a bunch of mid-range jobs that require Construction or Vigor, but I confess I haven't studied the jobs the way some people do, so I don't know if his complaint is valid.

The average damage of similar level weapons is very close and in fact the best known weapon is a melee weapon ...

For the average player who doesn't stick all their points into Dex/Shooting/Setting Traps the better lower level XP jobs are actually red skill jobs. Building Railroad Station and Building Windmills are excellent XP jobs and can be attained at reasonably low levels with decent gear.

Yes, there are a few shooters who get to Grizzly Hunting at lower levels but when you're talking about less then 50 players per world the percentage is so small that it isn't worth the discussion.

There are more shooting/setting traps at the very very high end of difficulty but so few people will ever get to those levels ....

 

[DeletedUser]

It's the point what I'd like to talk
Thank you

Search the top rankers each of attibutes and their level .
who's the winner? It's not casual

I'm not entirely sure of your point but if you're saying casual gamers are at a disadvantage by not knowing about going heavily into one skill/one attribute ... then I agree and guess what ? Casual gamers will always have disadvantages regardless of what game they play.

Inno has made changes regarding XP balance and those jobs show up on Monday.

The #1 and #2 player on W-1 do not have any points in Shooting or Setting Traps (other then gear) ... #1 is a builder with massive points in Leadership and #2 has massive points in Hiding and Tactics.

Many of the top 40 players are not high Dex/Shooting/Set Traps ... I have 8 Setting Traps and I know of many others near the top rankings who are pure builders.

The best dueler on W-1 is a melee person and I don't think you'll find any top dueler who won't tell you Auxo is the best. If they think it is someone else then they just haven't been been dueled by Auxo.

You should really do more research cause your statements are badly flawed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Mid-range jobs like hunting grizzly bear can be done as just late 20's. Is it difficult to approach?
I don't agree.
And those who selected vigor haven't even a few jobs like that.

 

[DeletedUser3741]

The average damage of similar level weapons is very close and in fact the best known weapon is a melee weapon ...

For the average player who doesn't stick all their points into Dex/Shooting/Setting Traps the better lower level XP jobs are actually red skill jobs. Building Railroad Station and Building Windmills are excellent XP jobs and can be attained at reasonably low levels with decent gear.

Actually Setting traps gets a great transition of high xp jobs, from low level to upper levels, its true builders will get the xp advantage for a while, but they cant compare when settting traps gets a double xp job the next level

With 100 construction you get - Build Windmills for 30%
With 104 setting traps you get - Hunting wolves for 63%

Yes, there are a few shooters who get to Grizzly Hunting at lower levels but when you're talking about less then 50 players per world the percentage is so small that it isn't worth the discussion.

There are more shooting/setting traps at the very very high end of difficulty but so few people will ever get to those levels ....

Moot Point, If something is unbalanced it doesnt matter how many people use it, it still needs to be balanced

 

[DeletedUser]

I used a word casual as not careless user but 'by chance'. Didn't mean to make you confused. Sorry.
For example in world 2, lvs of top 15 dex-attributed are 40's ranged. It's a clear contrast to other attributes.
And I know Auxo. He uploads his stats and duel reports at our site frequently and I suppose the reason they lose is being attributed reflex instead of toughness. He's a balanced dueler

 

[DeletedUser]

Auxo is a red herring. Somewhere down the line she got ten times more gear than the people she was duelling. How this happened is another matter but that is the reason. She'd have been top with melee or ranged.