DeletedUser
I still think you are setting things up as if the automatic way to progress in the game is to found a town and that is why there are so many towns.
DeletedUser
OK, then put a decision after Task 3:
"It's a lot of hard work founding a town and keeping it running, especially if you are on your own. You might be better off joining an established town instead and helping out there!
Decide between: [Join a town ($x to spend in the town)] or [Breaking the foundations - find a shovel]"
It sets up the idea of making a decision earlier in the game (thinking about the complaints I've read about 'The Decision'). If they choose the 'Breaking the foundations' then they continue following the original quest path. If they choose to join an established town then they get the "Joining a town task":
"I'm sure you've made the right decision and saved yourself a lot of hard work and blisters! "
Task: Join a town
"Here's some pocket money to spend in the store! Don't spend it all at once - remember you can put some by for a rainy day by depositing it in the bank!"
Reward: $x to spend in the town
The reward should be about half the money you'd get towards founding a town if you'd followed the original path; the payoff is that you can spend it how you want.
The question is what happens if the player joins a town before the quest is unlocked; should the quest appear if the player subsequently leaves the town?
"It's a lot of hard work founding a town and keeping it running, especially if you are on your own. You might be better off joining an established town instead and helping out there!
Decide between: [Join a town ($x to spend in the town)] or [Breaking the foundations - find a shovel]"
It sets up the idea of making a decision earlier in the game (thinking about the complaints I've read about 'The Decision'). If they choose the 'Breaking the foundations' then they continue following the original quest path. If they choose to join an established town then they get the "Joining a town task":
"I'm sure you've made the right decision and saved yourself a lot of hard work and blisters! "
Task: Join a town
"Here's some pocket money to spend in the store! Don't spend it all at once - remember you can put some by for a rainy day by depositing it in the bank!"
Reward: $x to spend in the town
The reward should be about half the money you'd get towards founding a town if you'd followed the original path; the payoff is that you can spend it how you want.
The question is what happens if the player joins a town before the quest is unlocked; should the quest appear if the player subsequently leaves the town?
DeletedUser
That works, especially if people have a cash incentive NOT to join a town. Sadly people are often a bit dumb and that has to be built into game design or it won't work. Anyway it's a really good idea and it should work so good luck getting it accepted.
DeletedUser1105
Yes, it certainly needs to slightly discourage the founding of towns, I think, whilst still remaining fair and explaining how to do it well if you still decide to found one.
Hopefully out of this we could have less towns and better ran towns.
Hopefully out of this we could have less towns and better ran towns.
DeletedUser
I assume you mean not to FOUND a town! Isn't the whole point of this to to get people to join established towns?
DeletedUser
what you said
DeletedUser
OK, I'll try and work something up later on that could go in the Dev forum, although I think we first need to address the question I had of people who join a town before unlocking the quest - do they see it if they subsequently leave the town?
DeletedUser
I'd say yes
DeletedUser
Me too. And kudos for all those who are working on this idea.
DeletedUser
OK, this is a worked out suggestion from TimeWalker's original idea.
The issue is that there are too many towns on the map with 5 or less residents which just aren't growing. Other growing towns can't get recruits. One suggestion has been to limit the number of towns founded in the first place; partly by making it more expensive to found a town and partly by limiting actually seeing the 'found town' spots to those who have completed the 'Founding a Town' quest.
The quest should be unlocked once the player is level 10, and should only be given to those players who are not (currently) members of a town. The rewards for the quest are skill points in town construction skills, and either cash in hand if you choose not to found a town or a discount on the cash needed to found a town. The difficulty can be adjusted by tweaking the items (and numbers) to be found.
The quest is 3 tasks, followed by a decision which leads to one of 2 tasks. It is offered by Henry: "So, you're still wandering around, are you? You need to either join a town or found one - but it takes a lot of hard work and money to found a successful town. First of all, you've got to select your site and clear it..."
First task: Mow the field to clear the land
Needed: Sickle 1/1
Reward: 1 skill point towards construction
"Now you've got to get your lumber to build with..."
Second task: Sawing lumber for the buildings
Needed: Saw 1/1, Wood x/x
Reward: 1 skill point towards repairing
"You've got your site and lumber ready. Now you need to start putting buildings together..."
Third task: Building the timber frames
Needed: Hammer 1/1
Reward: 1 skill point towards leadership
"It's a lot of hard work founding a town and keeping it running, especially if you are on your own. You might be better off joining an established town instead and helping out there!"
Decide between: [Join a town ($x to spend in the town)] or [Breaking the foundations - find a shovel]"
This sets up the idea of making decisions earlier in the game (thinking about the complaints I've read about 'The Decision'). If they choose 'Breaking the foundations' then they continue following the main quest path. If they choose to join an established town then they get the "Joining a town" task from Maya and the quest then ends:
"I'm sure you've made the right decision and saved yourself a lot of hard work and blisters! "
Task: Join a town
Needed: Join a town (i.e. the player's town tag isn't blank)
"Here's some pocket money to spend in the store! Don't spend it all at once - remember you can put some by for a rainy day by depositing it in the bank!"
Reward: $x to spend in the town
The reward should be about half the money you'd get towards founding a town if you'd followed the main path; the payoff is that you can spend it how you want.
"At last you're ready to dig the foundations..."
Fourth task: Dig out the rocks and make the foundations
Needed: Shovel 1/1, Granite blocks x/x
Reward: 1 skill point towards construction
"Now you're ready to raise your first building; but you need to hold a work party to do so..."
Fifth task: By helping the farmers in their tasks, they'll help you build the town, but you've got to feed them while they're building
Needed: Sugar 1/1, beans 1/1, ham 1/1, corn 1/1, tomatoes 1/1, flour 1/1, oranges 1/1, berries 1/1, tobacco 1/1, water 1/1
Reward: See found town icons, 1 skill point towards construction and $200 discount on founding a town
The reason for all the products is to make people do a multiplicity of tasks - you're making bread, pork & beans, corn and tomatoes on the side, fruit cobbler for dessert, and giving them water to drink and tobacco to smoke.
The idea is that players who complete tasks 4 and 5 can found a new town on one of the found town spots; the monetary cost should be raised to at least $600 to do so (discounted by the final reward). Players who choose not to do tasks 4 & 5 but join a town instead and take the cash from Maya, cannot follow this path of founding a town. They can only found a town by paying the full cost in cash and using a ghost town (which should now be in limited supply). Players who join a town before they are level 10 don't actually get this quest unless they subsequently leave the town.
The skill point rewards are geared towards town construction and should be useful for other jobs. It also introduces the concept of quest forks to players - you get one thing if you choose one option; another if you choose another.
The one thing I'm not sure about is what should happen if the player joins a town without going through the fork and getting Maya's task; should the quest end right after Task 3 and the player doesn't get $x to spend? Or should the quest still play out? This, I think, is where the potential for abuse may appear.
The issue is that there are too many towns on the map with 5 or less residents which just aren't growing. Other growing towns can't get recruits. One suggestion has been to limit the number of towns founded in the first place; partly by making it more expensive to found a town and partly by limiting actually seeing the 'found town' spots to those who have completed the 'Founding a Town' quest.
The quest should be unlocked once the player is level 10, and should only be given to those players who are not (currently) members of a town. The rewards for the quest are skill points in town construction skills, and either cash in hand if you choose not to found a town or a discount on the cash needed to found a town. The difficulty can be adjusted by tweaking the items (and numbers) to be found.
The quest is 3 tasks, followed by a decision which leads to one of 2 tasks. It is offered by Henry: "So, you're still wandering around, are you? You need to either join a town or found one - but it takes a lot of hard work and money to found a successful town. First of all, you've got to select your site and clear it..."
First task: Mow the field to clear the land
Needed: Sickle 1/1
Reward: 1 skill point towards construction
"Now you've got to get your lumber to build with..."
Second task: Sawing lumber for the buildings
Needed: Saw 1/1, Wood x/x
Reward: 1 skill point towards repairing
"You've got your site and lumber ready. Now you need to start putting buildings together..."
Third task: Building the timber frames
Needed: Hammer 1/1
Reward: 1 skill point towards leadership
"It's a lot of hard work founding a town and keeping it running, especially if you are on your own. You might be better off joining an established town instead and helping out there!"
Decide between: [Join a town ($x to spend in the town)] or [Breaking the foundations - find a shovel]"
This sets up the idea of making decisions earlier in the game (thinking about the complaints I've read about 'The Decision'). If they choose 'Breaking the foundations' then they continue following the main quest path. If they choose to join an established town then they get the "Joining a town" task from Maya and the quest then ends:
"I'm sure you've made the right decision and saved yourself a lot of hard work and blisters! "
Task: Join a town
Needed: Join a town (i.e. the player's town tag isn't blank)
"Here's some pocket money to spend in the store! Don't spend it all at once - remember you can put some by for a rainy day by depositing it in the bank!"
Reward: $x to spend in the town
The reward should be about half the money you'd get towards founding a town if you'd followed the main path; the payoff is that you can spend it how you want.
"At last you're ready to dig the foundations..."
Fourth task: Dig out the rocks and make the foundations
Needed: Shovel 1/1, Granite blocks x/x
Reward: 1 skill point towards construction
"Now you're ready to raise your first building; but you need to hold a work party to do so..."
Fifth task: By helping the farmers in their tasks, they'll help you build the town, but you've got to feed them while they're building
Needed: Sugar 1/1, beans 1/1, ham 1/1, corn 1/1, tomatoes 1/1, flour 1/1, oranges 1/1, berries 1/1, tobacco 1/1, water 1/1
Reward: See found town icons, 1 skill point towards construction and $200 discount on founding a town
The reason for all the products is to make people do a multiplicity of tasks - you're making bread, pork & beans, corn and tomatoes on the side, fruit cobbler for dessert, and giving them water to drink and tobacco to smoke.
The idea is that players who complete tasks 4 and 5 can found a new town on one of the found town spots; the monetary cost should be raised to at least $600 to do so (discounted by the final reward). Players who choose not to do tasks 4 & 5 but join a town instead and take the cash from Maya, cannot follow this path of founding a town. They can only found a town by paying the full cost in cash and using a ghost town (which should now be in limited supply). Players who join a town before they are level 10 don't actually get this quest unless they subsequently leave the town.
The skill point rewards are geared towards town construction and should be useful for other jobs. It also introduces the concept of quest forks to players - you get one thing if you choose one option; another if you choose another.
The one thing I'm not sure about is what should happen if the player joins a town without going through the fork and getting Maya's task; should the quest end right after Task 3 and the player doesn't get $x to spend? Or should the quest still play out? This, I think, is where the potential for abuse may appear.
DeletedUser
sounds good, but the saw, wood, and oranges are a bit hard to get at that level.
DeletedUser
Well, I suspect it'll take 2 or 3 levels to complete the full quest! The devs seem to want to slow the game down anyway, so I don't see that being much of a problem.
DeletedUser
Well the major point of this thread/quest is to limit the amount of people who found a town without knowing the real work/$$ involved in it...... plopping down 300$ is the easy part.. getting donations and managing the build and and and and and and are the real work to the town.. That is one of the reasons for my first quest talking about your "group of friends" and some people like to RP this game that is why I was trying to keep the info more under a RP type of talk..
I mean if I was going to talk to someone.. I would say listen it'll take 10,000 dollars and you'd have a liveable town but if you want a really nice town expect to come up with 50,000$.. (ie: my w5 town is up to 15000) and it's no where really
I mean if I was going to talk to someone.. I would say listen it'll take 10,000 dollars and you'd have a liveable town but if you want a really nice town expect to come up with 50,000$.. (ie: my w5 town is up to 15000) and it's no where really
DeletedUser
The trouble is that it'll be hard to code the RP aspect; turning into a slog to get the ability to found towns actually points up the work involved. I actually would suggest that the requirements for each task to be completed get more difficult (and tedious) throughout the quest.
So, Task 1 needs 1 sickle (5% chance); Task 2 needs 1 saw (10% chance) & 2 wood (25%/30%/65% depending on which job); Task 3 needs a hammer (11% chance) & 3 wood; Task 4 needs a shovel (8%/6%) & 5 granite blocks (22%); and finally task 5 needs 10 different food products.
How many people do you think will stick out the quest? The sickle is going to be a pain to get to even get past Task 1. Unless what you actually want is a cooperative quest where you and your putative townsmates actually cooperate in obtaining the items... Cooperative jobs have been suggested; however, there would be a fair amount of coding required for that, whereas this quest will only require minimal extra coding (mostly the discount on founding the town).
So, Task 1 needs 1 sickle (5% chance); Task 2 needs 1 saw (10% chance) & 2 wood (25%/30%/65% depending on which job); Task 3 needs a hammer (11% chance) & 3 wood; Task 4 needs a shovel (8%/6%) & 5 granite blocks (22%); and finally task 5 needs 10 different food products.
How many people do you think will stick out the quest? The sickle is going to be a pain to get to even get past Task 1. Unless what you actually want is a cooperative quest where you and your putative townsmates actually cooperate in obtaining the items... Cooperative jobs have been suggested; however, there would be a fair amount of coding required for that, whereas this quest will only require minimal extra coding (mostly the discount on founding the town).
DeletedUser
I like your idea Sammie.. But Wood, Water & Granite is difficult to get above a certain level and if a player goes down that path then they will forever be stuck with those skills.
Maybe after all buildings in a town reach level 1, the town founder gets a free rejig of their skills in another quest?
Maybe after all buildings in a town reach level 1, the town founder gets a free rejig of their skills in another quest?
DeletedUser
i think it is an excellent idea. town founders need the pain and suffering of horrible quests they cant achieve.
DeletedUser
They CAN achieve em but not by level 8 and before this is presented we need to work them out and give a useable plotline and come up with some small reward that anyone would want IE: some exp some cash... but the big thing is unlocking the town founding icons and educating the new people who think that WOW 300$ for a town.. I'll go for that .. and that guy finds a couple people who join.. they donate cause he says I'll build.. I have a lot of construction points.. ( maybe a whole 10) then 3-5 people are all "locked" into a town that will fail and dont want to leave cause they have spent money and now we have 5 people who will end up giving up because of one person who never knew what he was getting into
DeletedUser
Well, given that my idea involves not getting this quest until the character reaches level 10 AND is not in a town I don't think people will worry about level 8 characters being able to found new towns! Frankly, I think it unlikely that putative town founders will complete this quest until level 12 at the earliest (unless they have an optimised skill set and a run of extraordinary good luck). I'm hoping that the difficulty will mean that the full quest won't be completed until level 15+.
In any case, anyone will be able to take over a ghost town by plopping down $600 (or more if that goes through) plus the energy and time at any level. Part of the reason for upping the money needed is to make it less likely that a low level character will be in a position to do that. Also, by limiting the number of new towns available, the number of ghost towns will be proportionatly less and thus seen as a desirable resource.
In any case, anyone will be able to take over a ghost town by plopping down $600 (or more if that goes through) plus the energy and time at any level. Part of the reason for upping the money needed is to make it less likely that a low level character will be in a position to do that. Also, by limiting the number of new towns available, the number of ghost towns will be proportionatly less and thus seen as a desirable resource.
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DeletedUser
I founded my town on w5 @ 9 but then quickly went to 10 hovered there for a day or two.. went to 11.. 12 13 in pretty quick succession but I would of stayed in the 11 range quite a bit longer if I hadn't already gotten the leather for the henry's birthday quest
DeletedUser
But you knew what you were doing so that gives you an advantage over total new people. I'm not putting you down I don't mean it like that. I'm just saying a brand new person would not have been able to do that. That is why I am following this thread closely. I am on World 5 and the number of towns are rather staggering to me. The lack of hotels in them even more so. I really hope this Town Quest thing gets fixed and goes through. I do believe it is a very good idea.