Guarding the town

[DeletedUser1105]

But that would be the risk of queing such a long job. Maybe you were paid your wage hourly, rather than at the end, so that 1/3 of it would be available to be lost.

This also gives a little more advantage to duellers, as it would give them more chance of getting money from the duel with the guard.

I think we have something good going here.

You are not wrong.

 

[DeletedUser]

Introducing tokens for beating a guard could be a way to make it a win/win situation, but that might just be complicating things.

If you want to queue it for 8 hours, then you could get paid, say every 2 hours?

In principle; the longer you guard, the more dangerous it becomes.
Just tossing in an idea.

Would be nice to see some more thoughs on this subject.

 

[DeletedUser]

So, this thread doesn't provoce much negativity atleast, but neither much response.

Meh, are we going to move onwards with this, or will it be put down due to the motivation issue?

The way it was put sdjx22 on page 2 is someting I wouldn't mind seeing in-game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not sure if you noticed but i actually changed quite a lot of what the monkey said, that for me made it workable. I hope you don't think it is arrogant of me to say 'i can't accept this etc. the way i see it is i'm speaking up for a certain point of view not just my own.
The whole 'why should soldiers do this' argument is bogus to me because people have been SCREAMING to be allowed to do something to defend their town. Don't forget that one has only so much energy and this is something to do when your energy is quite low.
If you'd prefer it in 2 hour stretches i don't have a problem with that.
If you read the post i made [which superficially looked very similar to monkeys' then for me the motivation issue is solved WITHOUT the need to do anything about duelling motivation as such.

This post has been well responded to. OK you haven't got lots of jokey chatter to get the post count up. People are respecting the debate.

 

[DeletedUser]

Respecting the debate ? Maybe .
I'm more likely to buy they're to lazy to read or try to comprehend what's being said .

I can agree with the lastest incarnation . Especialy if We drop it normal job lenghts .
If the opion to keep it a low or no energy job is strong , then four hour stents .
Also are maximums on "intercept" and "hiding" really needed ? Example , Dueler A has hiding at 9 points giving a 90% chance (or hinderance) to avoid interception , Guard A has sixty extra labor points giving him a 30% chance to intercept . So unless either the Dueler puts nothing into hiding or the Guard has massive excess labor points intercet is impossible .This is the current scheme .
With no maxium , and one % on intercept per labor point , and 5% per skill point of hiding , the same two players .
Dueler A has 45% chance to avoid detection , Guard A has 60% chance at interception . Giving the guard only a 15% chance at interception . Which give the town a little protection with out unduely hindering "Duelers" . Which is what We're trying to achive here .

 

[DeletedUser]

That makes sense. If we take the cumulative reasoning to this point then this is looking very like a workable proposal.

 

[DeletedUser]

So what happens if a guard quits in the middle of his duel? or if an attacker quits, and restarts his duel? Or if two attackers stagger their attack, and the first one quits the duel?

 

[DeletedUser]

You will not know if you get intercepted until the duel has happened.
If you quit the duel, then you wouldn't know if you were intercepted or not.

If the guard quits when he was due to intercept, dueler could either:
a) hit intended target
or
b) check if he is blocked by any other guards

Does this answer your questions Kevlar?

Also; Nice post Oakley Jones.

I think we are getting closer to agreement by the hour here.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hiding should be 1% per point. There are a few(including myself) duelers that put their Att. points into MOB rather than DEX. If it gets 10%, then by the time they're lvl 9 they get 90% which, against 100% detecting ability from the guard, will give lvl 9 dueler 10% chance of being caught by lvl 30 Soldier guarding the town.

Making it 1% will provide slight make-ups to MOB duelers against DEX duelers since DEX duelers are packed with much higher damage and not much less of defence factors.

About duel motivation, I sort of agree with Ulthor on not spending any when dueler A duels guard A for being caught. Other than that, I can't say I feel comfortable with this whole duel motivation thing. I mean the duel motivation only effects the EXP and $$$, so maybe I was thinking the duel motivation of Guards shouldn't go down at the same rate it goes down for Duelers, sorta compensating the EXP for Soldiers doing nothing but walking around the town looking for any attacker who forgot to call and make a reservation at specific time. And it's not like Duelers will come to your town with load of money to be caught by Town Guards.

2-hr should be more reasonable, 8-hr is just too much, to me. And yes, please pay something to our poor Soldiers. Token would be nice as long as it doesn't complicate the system too much. Different Token value from different lvl of duelers or guards would be a good example of complicating the system too much for a little difference.

To wrap up, this whole idea is awesome. There are still a few debatable factors here and there, but awesome.

 

[DeletedUser]

In My suggested revisionism , it would be 5% instead of 10% .Plus it gave the "guards" 1% per excess labor point instead of 5% for 10 points . By halving both it seemed a better balance to Me . So if You have a high mobility there fore high hiding You would stand a better chance to slip past the town watch . A guard with better skills would still stand a chance to catch You .
Thank You , several of Us are trying very hard to develop a solid Fair proposal .

 

[DeletedUser]

I think that there is the goodwill to compromise and get something workable out of this. Perhaps it is getting near time for the original poster to ask for this to be locked and start again. It's getting awfully hard to know where we are.
I think we may be in danger of thinking we agree when we don't - if you see what i mean!

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree on this.

I say, before we close it down, we need to sum up where we are at.

Especially three has voiced strong opinions here, the evil monkey, Oakley Jones and Ulthor.
If the three of you could sum up how you would like this proposal to look, then we could closer examine it before moving on in a new re-worked thread.

Sound allright to you guys?

(also, whomever else feels inclined to do a summary of how they see this are welcome to it)

 

[DeletedUser]

OK THIS IS WHAT I THINK MOST OF US HAVE AGREED>>>>>>>>

The Job
Any town member can queue up the 'Guard Town' job. He can do this for 10 minute, 30 minutes, one hour, two hour periods.
It pays a wage of around $25 an hour but no xp.
There are skills needed to for the job: Leadership, Aim, Dodging, Setting Traps, Tactics, or something like that. It has a certain difficulty level. 1 labor point needed to work, as usual.

The Interception
The more labour points you have, the higher chance the guard has of intercepting a duel. 1-10 points = 5%, 11-20 points = 10% etc, up to a total of 100% chance
The skill 'Hiding' will reduce the chance of being intercepted. Each skill point in hiding would reduce the chance of interception by 5%, up to a maximum of 100%
DUELLER A comes to town, queues up a duel against WORKER A. The normal duelling procedure follows. However, in the background, it works out (using GUARD A's percentage of interception after taking off DUELLER A's hiding deduction) if he get's intercepted. If the duelling levels do not correspond with the limits already imposed in the game, then there is no chance of interception. Then one of two things happen:
1) DUELLER A is not intercepted. The intended duel with WORKER A goes ahead as normal. The normal motivation and energy cost is spent. OR:
2) DUELLER A is intercepted. In effect the guard has instigated a duel with the dueller. This costs the guard the usual duel motivation and energy but does not cost the dueller any. Then one of two things happen again: The duel happens instantly, the dueller does not have the option to cancel.
2a) GUARD A wins the duel. The defeated DUELLER A is unable to attack either GUARD A or WORKER A within the next hour. He is free to attack other members as usual.
2b) DUELLER A wins the duel. He gains the usual XP and any money (if the guard is silly enough to have some on him). He then duels WORKER A in the usual manner with a ten minute delay as normal. This duel costs him NO motivation and energy and is played as usual. He has the option to cancel this duel if s/he wishes

Other
If there is more than one guard on patrol at the same time, the dueller can only be intercepted by one of them i.e. he doesn't have to run the gauntlet.
The dueller does, however, have more chance of being caught. It would run the test to see if Guard A intercepts the dueller. If he does, the procedure above is ran. If he doesn't, it runs the test to see if Guard B intercepts and so on. This is fair, because there is a high chance of the guards being different duelling levels, so automatically have no chance of intercepting.
In the event of a number of duellers visiting town at the same time (i.e. co-ordinated attacks, the GUARD can only intercept one at a time. If he intercepts DUELLER A, and whilst the ten minutes duel is being played, DUELLERS B and C come to town, there is no protection unless there are more guards. That said, if DUELLER A gets past, DUELLER B may get intercepted instead.
The guard may have an unlimited number of duels as long as he has enough health and energy, if he gets knocked out, that's his problem.
Does duelling motivation go down for the challenged dueller? NO
Guards can still be duelled in the normal way whilst working, as they are not sleeping. They cannot intercept during this duel.
All current duelling rules/procedures are to stay as they are and take priority over this idea.

 

[DeletedUser]

Seems very much what I thought we agreed upon as well.

Excepting a few things, wich may, or may not need further debate:
-Skills used for the job: This can either be discussed by us, or left to the discretion of the devs, it is their final saying that goes, either way.

-Hiding vs intercept ability.
We need to find the bet way to balance this, can this be explored further?

-Duel motivation loss for the guard, and energy cost.
Whilst I do agree there should be some cost when he does intercept, I do not think he should pay the full price.
If he does in fact not pay in full, he can travel to the offending town afterwards, and duel. Thus bringing more duels into the game, except of fewer. This can be discussed further.

Other than that, we are down to details now.

Evil monkey, Oakley Jones, any input from you guys?

And thanks for writing the summary Ulthor. Great work!

edit. yeah, I'm willing to compromise, otherwise we will not get anywhere, and I'm glad the ones discussing this with me have the same frame of mind.

 

[DeletedUser]

the difficulty of the guard town job needs to be based on the size of the town (construction points) and the number of members. a bigger town is harder to guard, and therefore easier to get into.

 

[DeletedUser]

this seems like an excellent way to make soldiers matter more..... and it needs to be hiding vs animal instinct, point for point, with difficulty handicap on guard based on size of town and members.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is how I think it is currently agreed to ?

The Job
Any town member can queue up the 'Guard Town' job. Which can be preformed for standard work periods .
Money 10%, Experience 0% ,Luck 0% , Danger 50%.
There are skills needed to for the job: Leadership, Setting Traps, Tactics, Appearance , and Hiding.
It has difficulty level of thirty (30). 1 labor point needed to work, as usual.

The Interception
The more labour points you have, the higher chance the guard has of intercepting a duel , at a rating of 1% per excess labor point .
The skill 'Hiding' will reduce the chance of being intercepted. Each skill point in hiding would reduce the chance of interception by 5% .
DUELLER A comes to town, queues up a duel against WORKER A. The normal duelling procedure follows. However, in the background, it works out (using GUARD A's percentage of interception after taking off DUELLER A's hiding deduction) if he get's intercepted. If the duelling levels do not correspond with the limits already imposed in the game, then there is no chance of interception. Then one of two things happen:
1) DUELLER A is not intercepted. The intended duel with WORKER A goes ahead as normal. The normal motivation and energy cost is spent. OR:
2) DUELLER A is intercepted. In effect the guard has instigated a duel with the dueller. This costs the guard the usual duel motivation and energy but does not cost the dueller any. Then one of two things happen again: The duel happens instantly, the dueller does not have the option to cancel.
2a) GUARD A wins the duel. The defeated DUELLER A is unable to attack either GUARD A or WORKER A within the next hour. He is free to attack other members as usual.
2b) DUELLER A wins the duel. He gains the usual XP and any money (if the guard is silly enough to have some on him). He then duels WORKER A in the usual manner with a ten minute delay as normal. This duel costs him NO motivation and energy and is played as usual. He has the option to cancel this duel if s/he wishes

Other
If there is more than one guard on patrol at the same time, the dueller can only be intercepted by one of them i.e. he doesn't have to run the gauntlet.
The dueller does, however, have more chance of being caught. It would run the test to see if Guard A intercepts the dueller. If he does, the procedure above is ran. If he doesn't, it runs the test to see if Guard B intercepts and so on. This is fair, because there is a high chance of the guards being different duelling levels, so automatically have no chance of intercepting.
In the event of a number of duellers visiting town at the same time (i.e. co-ordinated attacks, the GUARD can only intercept one at a time. If he intercepts DUELLER A, and whilst the ten minutes duel is being played, DUELLERS B and C come to town, there is no protection unless there are more guards. That said, if DUELLER A gets past, DUELLER B may get intercepted instead.
The guard may have an unlimited number of duels as long as he has enough health and energy, if he gets knocked out, that's his problem.
Does duelling motivation go down for the challenged dueller? NO
Guards can still be duelled in the normal way whilst working, as they are not sleeping. They cannot intercept during this duel.
All current duelling rules/procedures are to stay as they are and take priority over this idea .

keighlon , Your point about larger town being easier is true , but You would also have to search for a longer time there by increasing the likelihood of interception . I don't see the reason for "animal instinct" , You're guarding a settlement not hunting rabbits .

 

[DeletedUser]

You're guarding a settlement not hunting rabbits .

lol! Excellent point though. The size of the town seems a good argument, and we do seem to be somewhat agreed here.

We should examine the items in the game, to see if they favour the duelist, or the guard too much in either direction, other then that, I think we are nearing the final stage of this proposal.

 

[DeletedUser]

I assume a larger town would have a larger population over a greater level span .
Therefore it would attract more "Duelers" , hence the "Guard" is more likely to be A) in a duel at the moment or B) out of "Duel" level span . This makes the point invalid to the current proposal .
Right ?

 

[DeletedUser]

animal instinct is knowing how certain things think and being able to anticipate that. people are animals too. knowing a man is just like knowing a rabbit. so it makes perfect sense and is much easier than adding a new skill for interception. also, the difficulty needs to be variable. i shouldnt have the same difficulty guarding a 1 horse town as a sprawling metropolis.