nerf product farm; tweak jobs time

[Symbiote]

farming products is way less efficient as an income source than active luck farming and that is due to the inflation of products the sets has caused. the income rate for 15s luck farming is as high as 15x more than if you were to farm product and employ effort into developing craft. the solution is easy: halving product chance drop, or even 1/3 of the actual numbers. product farming gets way more interesting just by tightening the supply offer for the crafts. easy.

another inconvenience is how click-heavy going for 15s spam is, you must be adding tasks every 2min15s because 10 min jobs sucks and that demands having to cease in whatever irl task you are every 2 minutes so you can go for the awesome fast click-and-wait-reward gameplay. make the 15s jobs being 1 minute long (edit: the rewards and drop chance is 4 times more too ofc, in parallel), the 10 minutes one to 15 (still useless) and 1h as it is. this reduces the span of attention you need to give the idle game when you want to play it active. is it too much to ask for the freemium job slots to be 5 and the premium 12?

crafts need a massive revamp but thats another thread.

 

[Beefmeister]

i...don't really know what to say about this suggestion. right now, even with those crazy product farm rates, nobody farms. that's why everything is so expensive on the market. the big problem in my opinion is that the money multiplying sets have insane rates right now...so everyone can make money...having no life, or with bots, or both...

i agree a revamp on jobs is needed (regarding xp drop rates and money rates) and i saw previous suggestions for it, one of em being boosting the 10 minutes jobs...nothing done

 

[darthmaul99174]

The game needs to discourage slaving away at spamming 15 second jobs or logging in twice a day to work on a church. Which is what future updates should focus on.

PVP, and general player to player interaction is the true end game for 99% of multiplayer games & MMORPGs. Building, crafting, farming, whatever it is, should be an accessory to that. Important still, but not such a strong focus that people even feel the need to bot/multi and those that do are in the extreme minority as its unnecessary (It'll always exist, but it shouldn't be a consideration or problem for the normal player).

Increasing rewards for all of these, or clearly defining them better would solve this problem. Some jobs are purely to farm products, some for money or experience, building is for town building - each having an individual purpose and given out in large enough quantities that its not a focus and the main reward is something to show for it the work with end game pvp (FF/Duel/Adventures or even town/alliance wars).

If you have to farm for years and years to gain a slight advantage/progress in something that is broken or underdeveloped then you'll always get cheaters, scripters, bots and multies because it has no skill ceiling, only an effort & time ceiling, which is all about ingenuity and efficiency. It's natural to find a work-around when somethings practically impossible otherwise. Players are forced in this direction. You see it alot in other games too, look at runescape.

Ps. Solving this would also make the game good

 

[Huscarle.]

The game needs to discourage slaving away at spamming 15 second jobs or logging in twice a day to work on a church. Which is what future updates should focus on.

PVP, and general player to player interaction is the true end game for 99% of multiplayer games & MMORPGs. Building, crafting, farming, whatever it is, should be an accessory to that. Important still, but not such a strong focus that people even feel the need to bot/multi and those that do are in the extreme minority as its unnecessary (It'll always exist, but it shouldn't be a consideration or problem for the normal player).

Increasing rewards for all of these, or clearly defining them better would solve this problem. Some jobs are purely to farm products, some for money or experience, building is for town building - each having an individual purpose and given out in large enough quantities that its not a focus and the main reward is something to show for it the work with end game pvp (FF/Duel/Adventures or even town/alliance wars).

If you have to farm for years and years to gain a slight advantage/progress in something that is broken or underdeveloped then you'll always get cheaters, scripters, bots and multies because it has no skill ceiling, only an effort & time ceiling, which is all about ingenuity and efficiency. It's natural to find a work-around when somethings practically impossible otherwise. Players are forced in this direction. You see it alot in other games too, look at runescape.

Ps. Solving this would also make the game good

Well, i was working in a document (yes, i got the suggestion in a pdf) about rewards adventures with exp, in adittion to the adventures the veteran point shop can be more useful to the players too

 

[Poker Alice]

Not sure I'm understanding the suggestion? The suggestion is requesting a change to job times and/or rewards being given?

"Symbiote: said, .. this reduces the span of attention you need to give the idle game when you want to play it active. is it too much to ask for the freemium job slots to be 5 and the premium 12?"

Doesn't freemium (Freemium is a business model that offers both complimentary and extra-cost services to users) and premium mean the same thing?

The game needs to discourage slaving away at spamming 15 second jobs or logging in twice a day to work on a church. Which is what future updates should focus on.

PVP, and general player to player interaction is the true end game for 99% of multiplayer games & MMORPGs. Building, crafting, farming, whatever it is, should be an accessory to that. Important still, but not such a strong focus that people even feel the need to bot/multi and those that do are in the extreme minority as its unnecessary (It'll always exist, but it shouldn't be a consideration or problem for the normal player).

Increasing rewards for all of these, or clearly defining them better would solve this problem. Some jobs are purely to farm products, some for money or experience, building is for town building - each having an individual purpose and given out in large enough quantities that its not a focus and the main reward is something to show for it the work with end game pvp (FF/Duel/Adventures or even town/alliance wars).

If you have to farm for years and years to gain a slight advantage/progress in something that is broken or underdeveloped then you'll always get cheaters, scripters, bots and multies because it has no skill ceiling, only an effort & time ceiling, which is all about ingenuity and efficiency. It's natural to find a work-around when somethings practically impossible otherwise. Players are forced in this direction. You see it alot in other games too, look at runescape.

Ps. Solving this would also make the game good

Perhaps the ole west grants versatility to different playing styles? Not saying my style is for everyone but I actually like the 15 second plays. One reason I like them compared to fort battles (although I can enjoy those too) is that the attentive jobs do allow me to play when I choose and not at times preset.

I've not played runescape but have played farming style games with some enjoyment. You see, I like a theme of supporting and trading with other players in multiplayer. I'm thinking if the focus of a game is solely a competitive battle style then that would not be my game.

 

[Symbiote]

for the products; once you raise the difficulty to obtain products for crafts you will lower the number of people willing to do the farming, yes, and at first players with a nice stash will benefit from it as people will quit this aspect of the game, but once the market has been cleared of those then people will still need crafts for the active gameplay of 15s spam, and in order for it to be worth the gatherers time the prices must rise accordingly to the effort. what else could you do to compensate the farmers? doing nothing changes nothing and increasing drop chances will only make the volume of crafts even higher and lower their costs even more. say people are used to buy chewing tobacco at 4k and the nerf has been applied, people will not pay more than 4k for a chewing tobacco? then they won't have chewing tobacco. until they do need chewing tobacco. then they will pay whatever the supplier asks for. yes, people will quit farming, crafts will go scarce but people will not stop consuming as they do, so when market is clear for it you can start price making at higher stakes and people will pay because they can't live without the thing. i don't think the math would go straight as the difficulty is 2x more so the price is equally risen 2x more, it could go even to 3x more, but if the tradeoff doesnt compensate accordingly then people will stop doing that until it do compensate accordingly. offer and demand in a world where the only thing that controls inflation is the possibility of freezing items into ^3 units.

for the jobs; man... checking the game every 2 minutes so you can make the most out of the 15s jobs requires too much attention for a game where you set tasks and wait for reports. why impose such a burden to a silly wait-and-gain game? this is why people do bots and multis, because when you don't you are behind and to get ahead you must devote active attention to an idle game with a very boring repetitive task management. remember when jobs used to take 2h long? to beat that, 1 minutes jobs could require 3 energy and have 3x more rewards than they do now (xp, $ and luck) so you just need to check the game every 8 minutes instead of anxiety 2 min. and to raise the tasks slots to 5 and 12 is to further decrease that need of constant management in, again, an idle game. please, from this thread take this demand as the most important one (could do separate but they both portrays the income and effort issue)

and yes freemium is a free service that provides extra functionalities once you deploy money into it.

 

[criminus]

I’m a bit confused. How is halving the amount of products dropped going to help the need of the products?

 

[Symbiote]

I’m a bit confused. How is halving the amount of products dropped going to help the need of the products?

make it scarce so it has worth. do you guys ever consider the amount of currency generated by doing jobs daily and where does that pile up? in the frozen ^3 items the rich players upgrade. when you burn a consumable you are also burning the products required for that craft and the real value of this game is the Energy Points that are transformed into $ and XP. if you increase the availability of energy consumables, the value of each individual energy point is decreased because it is not hard to replenish it. i'm using austrian economics in a keynesian game.

 

[Symbiote]

addition: 15s luck spam for 1 hour pays 15x to 20x more than 1 hour of product farming, 15s luck spam is awfully exhausting in a 2 min span where you toast your dopamine receptors feeding them with anxiety-riddled task management whereas 1h product farm pays close to nothing, >>>is why people have auto-click and multi doing this awful job for them<<<. you guys can't be that oblivious to these issues source and means of solution...

 

[martoru]

addition: 15s luck spam for 1 hour pays 15x to 20x more than 1 hour of product farming, 15s luck spam is awfully exhausting in a 2 min span where you toast your dopamine receptors feeding them with anxiety-riddled task management whereas 1h product farm pays close to nothing, >>>is why people have auto-click and multi doing this awful job for them<<<. you guys can't be that oblivious to these issues source and means of solution...

absolutly not true
try to listen an audio book as you spam or radiophonic theatre

 

[Ektoras BOTrini]

absolutly not true
try to listen an audio book as you spam or radiophonic theatre

it is actually true , you get more products more xp and more items depending on what you aim for if you do 15s rather than 1 hour.. I can give you an example of one of the hardest product to farm which is Gold Dust , by doing 1 hour jobs with an average of 260% product drop rate you will get 1 per hour whilst if you do 15s you will mostly likely farm more than 15 in 1 hour.

You can farm more than 500 lotus flowers if you constantly do 15s jobs for at least 10 hours meanwhile if you do it by hours it will take you 7-8 days if you do 20 hours a day.

So which is more efficient and more worthwhile to do?

Simple , you also need a lot of Energy buffs so you can keep doing the 15s jobs ( no need for work motivation as it doesn't matter if it's 0% you will still get products ) but it will be worthwhile if the products you farm are for Energy buffs.

Sure , the hourly option is by far the best option to go for since it will not require you to waste a lot of energy buffs and it won't exhaust you physically and mentally.


I personally don't agree with this suggestion, 15s jobs are meant to literally drain your life away , requires a lot of consistency, time management and of course buffs so I don't find it surprising to be able to achieve more and gain more by doing 15s jobs. There's nothing wrong with how it is now and I would even say that the rewards of 15s should be way more higher than they are now , a minimum 75% increase in all aspects at least.

 

[Symbiote]

you must be a madman to farm products in 15s, luck farming i meant having a wage and item luck% set and that pays off way better than 1h product tasks; i think the earnings in 15s product farming are countered by the energy cost per unit farmed but i'll have to look it out.

>15s jobs are meant to literally drain your life away
and that is totally a good thing! having your life drained for ever decreasing marginal xp gains and flooding up the monetary system with explosive inflation in a game abandoned by its owners while i listen to Joe Rogan podcasts is awesome! i'm totally doing it by legit means and i'm glad everyone else is putting the same hand-made effort as i am, because they too find the fast click-and-wait hardcore gameplay while listening to Jordan B Petersen so awesome as much as i do!

is it too much to ask for not having your life drained away like that?? i was to ask for 30s jobs so i can check the game every 4 minutes instead of 2 and it would already be a massive improvement in the not draining my life away issue that the auto-clickers don't face yet they benefit from the lack of oversight. do you guys Like to click endlessly like that, having a greater advantage against idle players in a game meant to be played idle?

plus, if you increase the rewards on 15s jobs without changing anything else that just increases away the gap between NEET 15s spam players and idle berry pickers who don't feel like devoting so much active time in a tiresome active gameplay.

is there a chance i'm just being lazy and want the effort for active gameplay to require less clicking? there is also a chance it is built like that so you resort to either cheating or buying your way through the game with nuggs, but this last one only concerns the inflation as you can't buy xp. yet.

 

[Ektoras BOTrini]

i think the earnings in 15s product farming are countered by the energy cost per unit farmed but i'll have to look it out.

depends really on how many products you want to farm , ofc the more products the more resources you will need

15s jobs are meant to literally drain your life away
and that is totally a good thing! having your life drained for ever decreasing marginal xp gains and flooding up the monetary system with explosive inflation in a game abandoned by its owners while i listen to Joe Rogan podcasts is awesome! i'm totally doing it by legit means and i'm glad everyone else is putting the same hand-made effort as i am, because they too find the fast click-and-wait hardcore gameplay while listening to Jordan B Petersen so awesome as much as i do

Just to clarify, I don't say that it's a good thing, it's bad and unhealthy in many ways.

is it too much to ask for not having your life drained away like that?? i was to ask for 30s jobs so i can check the game every 4 minutes instead of 2 and it would already be a massive improvement in the not draining my life away issue that the auto-clickers don't face yet they benefit from the lack of oversight. do you guys Like to click endlessly like that, having a greater advantage against idle players in a game meant to be played idle?

Personally I wouldn't mind 30s , if only there was an option to add 25/15s jobs with 1 click and check to change jobs after every 6 minutes would've been very good but I highly doubt anything like that will happen

plus, if you increase the rewards on 15s jobs without changing anything else that just increases away the gap between NEET 15s spam players and idle berry pickers who don't feel like devoting so much active time in a tiresome active gameplay.

Let's be honest here, you choose to berry pick that's your own choice, you choose to Xp or farm or whatever it's your choice, every choice you make in the game counts as progress no matter how little but you have to understand that there are limitations, certain ways pay more that regular ways , just like in real life , if you work hard you will most certainly get more successful rather if you work lazy. Though i don't disagree about the auto spammers.

is there a chance i'm just being lazy and want the effort for active gameplay to require less clicking? there is also a chance it is built like that so you resort to either cheating or buying your way through the game with nuggs, but this last one only concerns the inflation as you can't buy xp. yet.

There isn't , you either do 15s jobs or just login and queue Church, with the duel XP increase coming that's another possibility but ofc it's still not the best way.

After 15 years, I would be sure that most if not all know that this game is p2w no matter what we say and it will never change. Yes the rewards of the jobs must be increased, yes church XP should increase, yes duel xp should be more, yes ff battles should give even more XP than they do now and of course our lovely quests should also give a lot of logical xp and not joke xp like 800 for a level 170 quest.

The game is in shambles, it needs many changes to satisfy the majority of the playerbase , this game is still alive because of the nostalgia of old players and because of FF battles.


Moral of the story, if you want to achieve great things, work hard or cheat yourself through but face the consequences when it will hit you. I'm really surprised that many players still pay tons of money for this company that year after year and with so much feedback, disregards their own player base almost 90% of the time. Changes that are being made are from ideas that only 1 person came up with , no one besides maybe supporters or CM's has ever seen that idea and that idea for some reason passes but it ends up being trash because before accepting the idea no proper tests are being made and certainly the person that accepts ideas has very limited knowledge of the game.

 

[Poker Alice]

I can certainly relate to high inflationary prices in the free marketplace though sometimes prices have been known to drop too. I admire someone trying to figure out some kind of political management solution if even only as a thought experiment.

However, I do think one could re-examine what affects our enjoyment of the game. I do understand how the desire to compete against other players can motivate, I've been there myself but is the feeling that the game demands something from us actually real? I believe it is choice. If we calculate the most profitable way to play is do 15second jobs but don't want to do the jobs then we can choose not to. Simple as that.

There are always gains and losses from the choices we make. For example [report=2354569acc4612a7e]Job report: Build a Settlement[/report] Dang it, how do I link a report in the forum? As one wise man once said, "manure happens".

 

[Caerdwyn]

I do not think you can do it as a link. Screenshot. instead?

The "widest" level of viewing a link is everyone in the world that the report comes from. Maybe people who share your world can C+P the report into their Notes and read it there, but the rest of .Net cannot.

 

[Poker Alice]

Thank you @Caerdwyn that was helpful. I'll remember to use a screenshot in the future.

After 15 years, I would be sure that most if not all know that this game is p2w no matter what we say and it will never change. Yes the rewards of the jobs must be increased, yes church XP should increase, yes duel xp should be more, yes ff battles should give even more XP than they do now and of course our lovely quests should also give a lot of logical xp and not joke xp like 800 for a level 170 quest.

Of course agreed, there will be advantages to spending money on a game. Paying for a game will and should reap good benefits.

What I don't understand is when players ask for overall larger rewards, in the back of their mind, do they not consider that the wage increases will also increase inflation overall? Would it be reasonable to suggest that some restraints are necessary? As what has been previously discussed in this thread more money in the hands of the cowboys will also drive up the free market prices? It is normal for the higher levels to become more difficult.

 

[Thanatoss]

15s jobs cost much more energy than 1 hour jobs though... So unless you have an unlimited supply of buffs its not really that worth it compared to 10m and 1hour jobs

 

[Tanzstafe]

Doh