DeletedUser1105
It would also mean that the town members had nowhere to stay 
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DeletedUser
No, I'm an adventurer, and joining a town means you can get discount goods and have the fun of watching it grow. It's good to a point not having a town but eventually items become too expensive.
This is a flaw in the game. The attacker cannot be attacked. The guard job proposal would work to a point but there needs to be an ability for members of the town to assault the hotel and duel the player: maybe it would get harder each level you go up.:bandit:
DeletedUser
Don't forget that adventurers have it for free
.It's ok because others can do it too? Ok let's take an example:
Everybody can just leave founder in the city, and leave it. He sends everybody an invitation so they can come back anytime, and meanwhile they are untouchable. This way you can't duel anyone but the founder (or chosen councilors who are sending invitations) and if you KO him (them), even better for him
. Also all the time they are without town or sleeping.If you are a dueler you can use this "tactic" to attack anybody without fear. Just go to enemy's hotel with invitation. Then accept invitation and you can fearlesly attack anybody who you want. After you have enough money, you can again leave your city and go home where you can get invitation again.
By your logic this is ok, because everybody can do it. That means duelers should be happy that they can't duel practicaly anyone of interest (but they are untouchable) and non-duelers should be happy that they are safe from you (except for few chosen ones).
I wonder if you are going to see the problem now
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DeletedUser
This is already happening. I saw in one world a town (only 500-600 points) with only a level 1 founder.
DeletedUser
That's surely a multi-account. Player created one account to send invitations so they can work peacefuly without fear of being robbed or attacked.
DeletedUser
I think there have been some suggestions (maybe in this thread, maybe another thread) about hotels and duelers:
One suggestion was that you can only queue sleep twice in a row and have to sleep for at least 1 hour
The other was that if you duel a townsman, you cannot sleep in their hotel for 24 hours
I think the second suggestion is better than the first; perhaps 24 hours is too long though? That would stop the camping issue - if a dueler duels someone from another town and wants to sleep, he must go to a different town to do so. Said town may be right next door or over 10 minutes away. That would give a window of opportunity for retaliatory attacks.
One suggestion was that you can only queue sleep twice in a row and have to sleep for at least 1 hour
The other was that if you duel a townsman, you cannot sleep in their hotel for 24 hours
I think the second suggestion is better than the first; perhaps 24 hours is too long though? That would stop the camping issue - if a dueler duels someone from another town and wants to sleep, he must go to a different town to do so. Said town may be right next door or over 10 minutes away. That would give a window of opportunity for retaliatory attacks.
DeletedUser
I think the best way to remove these issues is to increase the price or prohibit the renting of enemy's hotel room after duel for some time. I would preffer price increase as I've already suggested in this thread. And make everybody attackable even without town. Only greenhorns till lvl 10 will be unattackable. After reaching this 10th lvl, they will become attackable. That will solve every missuse of these game mechanics I've spoken of.
DeletedUser
I think that reason why people without towns are unattackable is because how the duel mechanics are played out - the duel needs a fixed location to happen, and attacking people at a job site would add too much complexity to the mechanics.
Let's break the current mechanics down:
It may well be possible to lock people to a location if they've been challenged, but I can just hear the howls going up... It's bad enough have 'locked' clothing. Either way, both methods have a degree of realism and both have a degree of unrealistic fudge. It's swings and roundabouts really; this is a game not a simulation - you have to accept a certain amount of compromise to allow a good gameplay experience and ease of programming.
Let's break the current mechanics down:
- Player A of Town Y wants to challenge Player B of Town Z to a duel
- Player A clicks on Town Z and issues a challenge via the residents list
- Player A travels to Town Z and then the mechanics of whether the duel happens or not come into play (is Player B sleeping? is Player B close enough in level to be dualable?)
- Player A decides he wants a duel. Either he scans the rankings looking for some random person or he scans the player buttons on job spots or towns, or he uses the original system and issues the challenge
- He then has to travel to Player B's current location (not Player B's town should he be a member of a town)
- When he reaches that location, the duel happens only if Player B is still at that location. If Player B has moved on, the duel doesn't happen (similar to if Player B is in the hotel). If Player B is still at that location, then the duel happens assuming it's within the dueling rules
It may well be possible to lock people to a location if they've been challenged, but I can just hear the howls going up... It's bad enough have 'locked' clothing. Either way, both methods have a degree of realism and both have a degree of unrealistic fudge. It's swings and roundabouts really; this is a game not a simulation - you have to accept a certain amount of compromise to allow a good gameplay experience and ease of programming.
DeletedUser
From my experience, clothes aren't locked if you are the defender. Saw the attacker in my town, and changed clothes less than 2 minutes before the duel concluded. (I won that duel, btw).
DeletedUser
They are if you're working and need an item of clothing to get sufficient labour points to do the job.
DeletedUser
It seems that a real place dueling (as named by Uthor) is realy the best solution. But You must allow to attack people without town (dueler still needs a town to attack someone). But greenhorns till lvl 10 will be unduelable. After initiating duel, dueler will track his victim, that means he will initialy go for his last location, but if the victim has moved, he automaticaly go for his new location. Also he is tracking him/her. But for this is another thread.
DeletedUser
That all makes sense.
DeletedUser
Effectively, you've already got this by 'in town' dueling. It doesn't matter exactly where on the map your target is; you duel him by visiting his town and provided he's not sleeping and the levels match, the duel happens.
All 'actual location' dueling is doing is adding programming complexity for the chance to duel people who are above level 10 but not in a town. Granted, it's more realistic, but is it actually worth the chance to duel a few more people?
Look at it in perspective, out of the player base, what is the proportion of active players who are not in a town? In W1, there are 22976 players rank 10 and above. I'm guessing (from eyeballing the rankings) that maybe 10% are not in a town. Of those 2300 players, how many are going to be close enough in level to you to duel? Maybe another 10%? So, you want the programmers to add in a load of extra programming just so you can duel an extra, let's be generous, 500 players?
I somehow don't think that the benefits of this suggestion will outweigh the added programming needed to implement it. It's a nice idea, but I don't think it's going to be practical to implement.
All 'actual location' dueling is doing is adding programming complexity for the chance to duel people who are above level 10 but not in a town. Granted, it's more realistic, but is it actually worth the chance to duel a few more people?
Look at it in perspective, out of the player base, what is the proportion of active players who are not in a town? In W1, there are 22976 players rank 10 and above. I'm guessing (from eyeballing the rankings) that maybe 10% are not in a town. Of those 2300 players, how many are going to be close enough in level to you to duel? Maybe another 10%? So, you want the programmers to add in a load of extra programming just so you can duel an extra, let's be generous, 500 players?
I somehow don't think that the benefits of this suggestion will outweigh the added programming needed to implement it. It's a nice idea, but I don't think it's going to be practical to implement.
DeletedUser1105
I completely 100% disagree with any idea that allows for the duelling of non-town members.
These players have no bank, so all of thier cash is at stake. Completely unfair.
But realplace duelling I am all for.
These players have no bank, so all of thier cash is at stake. Completely unfair.
But realplace duelling I am all for.
DeletedUser
What about the OP's well argued point that people are using leaving town as an exploit to avoid being duelled back? Do you have any solution to that? Maybe you can still be duelled for a week after you leave a town?
DeletedUser1105
That would be a good solution. I can't think of a simpler one.
DeletedUser
Is everybody happy now?
DeletedUser
Umm, I'm not so sure. I've left my town for a valid reason - I'm away for a week over Xmas and don't want to be dueled to high heaven because I'm not around (I'll have access, but it's dial-up and painfully slow for this game). I'd agree if a vacation mode could be implemented first; that would be for a minimum of 24 hours and a maximum of 2 weeks (336 hours) and can't be reactivated until at least the same amount of time has passed. Basically, it can be canceled anytime after 24 hours, and will expire automatically after 336 hours; and can't be reactivated until at least that amount of time has passed.
DeletedUser
No it's not true, when you think about that you can efectively "evade" all duelers by making them a non-members with invitations, then it's not.
It's the same with my suggestion, but now the duelers will want to have a fast mount to actualy catch his victim.
As a programmer I can tell you that this is realy easy to implement. No additional complexity. Just few little adjustments.
I'm wondering where do you get those informations like "It's very complex and hard to implement ...". Because they already know real location of your victim. They already know how to trigger an action when you arrive at your destination also what else do you need
? Just make dueler to go to last known position of his target. If the target has moved, then look where is he now and repeat action of chasing (maybe just send telegram that you are following his tracks). When you get to that new location look if he's there and so on ... Also where is the complexity in this?As far you didn't realise the problem I've described. Not just the original problem. In case I write it down again
Problem 1: Duelers can not be attacked in enemys towns (solution: unble to sleep in enemy's hotel or raising it's room price)
Problem 2: People are not attackable without town, which can be misused to make them untouchable while they are working. (solutin: real place dueling)
DeletedUser
That's true. But that's the life in the west.
Maybe give people an option like in stores, that you can store as much money in the bank as in bank of 3 lvls lower than the city has (like with stores). I don't see the reason why they should be any safer than anybody else. And still they can sleep in hotels where they are safe. in my opinion being a full-time member of a town should give me advantages, not disadvatages.
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